Interview, Bill Frisell on Michael Gibbs

Last week saw the latest UK concerts of the Bill Frisell Trio, its small but reputable lineup comprising drummer Rudy Royston, bassist Thomas Morgan and the great man himself on guitar. Having only just performed in London the previous evening and, the night before that, Bristol, the trio were received at the Royal Birmingham Conservatoire's Bradshaw Hall with a rapturous welcome for the final stop on their mini-tour. Frisell and co. last visited our shores only six months ago; judging by the clamourous audience, they've been sorely missed. Known for their ability to transform even the most benign jazz or pop standard into something uniquely compelling and original, the three artistic voices were joined onstage in hearty and often daring musical conversation. 

An audience member to my right reliably informed me that, having already caught the trio that week in London, not a single tune had been repeated over the course of their almost two-hour performances. What we were lucky enough to hear, however, was an intriguing collection of familiar numbers, each firmly engrained within Frisell's impressive canon of work in their own special way - no matter how long it has been since he first recorded them. Throughout the gig, the audience was treated to half-recognisable reworkings of 'Straight, No Chaser', 'Goodbye Pork Pie Hat' and even a well-earned encore of 'Days of Wine and Roses'. These earworms were linked by the cherry on the cake, a breathtaking combination of the Barbra Streisand showstopper 'People' and John Lennon's 'In My Life' - the tenterhook transition between them, I'll be hard-pressed to forget. 

But, there was more to the day's events than simply the concert. Thanks to Stoney Lane, the Brum-based label and promoter, Frisell had spent an afternoon with the college's students, imparting vital wisdom and discussing working with his collaborator and former mentor, Michael Gibbs (who was also in attendance). Together, the pair have released Orchestras, a sprawling double album that features live recordings of the trio across two different locations and musical settings: firstly, a performance alongside the Brussels Philharmonic, conducted by Alexander Hanson, and then with the 11-piece Umbria Jazz Orchestra, under the musical direction of Manuele Morbidini. We spoke to Bill off the back of the album launch and in the run-up to last week's tour, and he was happy to provide an exclusive peek behind the curtain...

Your relationship with Michael Gibbs goes back a long way, but it first properly came into fruition on the recording you made together with the NDR Bigband, Play a Bill Frisell Set List, back in 2013. How does it feel to be collaborating again on such a monumental project as this?

It’s a lifelong dream to do something like this with Michael Gibbs, because it goes all the way back to when I was in high school. It was a life changing moment when I started to hear all this music that I didn't know anything about. He was right in there when I first heard Miles Davis, Sonny Rollins and that whole thing. It was like my whole life shifted and I wanted to find out what this was. There was something in what he was doing, even when I first heard it, that was like, what is this? There was some sound, the melodies and harmonies, that was coming from another world.

Mike is known as one of the finest jazz arrangers our country has to offer, with a rich legacy to boot. When did you first encounter the man behind the music?

I guess I was 16 or 17 years old, getting more and more serious about playing, when I first heard his music. I grew up in Denver, Colorado, which is not known to be the music centre of the world, so I had moved to Boston to go to school and he was there, teaching. I couldn't believe my luck that my hero would be there, and so that's where we met. I took all of his classes at school, I played in his student band and then I left Boston and went to Belgium to live for a year. While I was there, he called me to do a tour - this is 1978. He invited me to do a tour all around England, and that was really my first actual, like, wow, tour with a real professional band! He's been such an important mentor, teacher and friend for so long. To be able to do this project, it's about the relationship with him. Also, with my trio, it's like we were let loose in this landscape that we could just explore.

At what point did you notice you had the desire to start working together?

I think it goes both ways: I've learned so much from him, but then he's been listening to me all this time too… so he really understands! It's like there's something, some connection. He's come to dozens of gigs where I've played, he's always curious about what's happening. I've always felt like he has a sense, if I play a note or chord - it's not just the one on the guitar you can play, there's a kaleidoscope of other overtones, resonances and things that are happening - it's like he's sensitive to that, to my sense of space and texture, and so there's nothing that gets in the way. It seems to expand what I do rather than block; it's more like it allows you to enter into this 'place'. With the trio and the language that we have, it just felt so free. We weren't having to play specific parts, worry about hitting this or do that - it's like,ok, here we go. Let's explore and see what happens!

Most of the compositions that feature here are your own, with Mike handling the musical arrangements. How closely were the two of you involved in the album’s production?

Only really talking about choosing the material, I guess. Most of it was things that I had played - we didn't have to have charts, we knew all the music anyway - so, then just letting Mike take it further to wherever he wanted to go. That's what's amazing, what he'll do. We played ‘Lush Life’, and he was listening to a recording that I had made before with Thomas. I think he used some of the things that I had played and then orchestrated that... He would take things and expand them, and then I would react to it. It’s like a beautiful back and forth.

I can’t help but think of the master and the apprentice switching places… maybe it's clichéd, but I wonder if the best teachers mostly end up learning from their pupils, as opposed to the other way around?

What's really incredible about him is even when I was in school, he would always be hanging out. If I had a gig in some little bar or something, or when the students were playing a recital, he was always checking it out. I think he’s always been inspired by what the players are doing; he's used that all along. I remember early when I was a student and I was giving a recital. I looked in the back and wow, he's already there listening to me playing... and that just kept happening!

This release had to be pushed back a few times because of the whole situation going on across the world at the time of its recording, but what was the impetus in approaching the project – had it been on the cards for a while, and when you do change creative lanes, so to speak, is there usually a reason behind it?

No - I mean, it was a long time that I wanted to do something with him, and there's things we've done in the past... The two concerts with two different groups, the Italian one and the Belgian one, both were opportunities that were presented to me like, would you like to do something with this group? I already knew that I wanted to do it with Mike. But then, like you said, the Brussels one... I forget when we were first scheduled to do it, but the pandemic happened and then it got postponed like two or three times before we finally did it, so there were a lot of obstacles.

How did these obstacles present themselves during the recording process, and were you able to overcome them?

Well, I haven't said this to anyone yet, but I'm gonna say it… I think it's ok! Don't tell anybody – I've been sort of avoiding this because no one specifically asked – so the Brussels Philharmonic, that's what we did, it's a live recording. They did an amazing job with recording it, and then we were able to mix it a little bit, change the balance and stuff like that, but it's live - that's what happened. But, speaking of the pandemic: for the Italian part, the trio was gonna come to the Umbria Jazz Festival with Mike Gibbs; we're gonna do a concert and record it. So, I get ready to go, I get on the aeroplane and then we find out Rudy, the drummer, got COVID - he can't come! So, we're like, oh sh*t, what are we gonna do? And then, Mike Gibbs is coming from Spain to Italy. This is right in the midst of when everybody's testing and tense about everything. He didn't have COVID, but they found out that he'd been exposed before he came, so they wouldn't allow him to leave his hotel room. He comes all the way there and, basically, they sent him back home! Then Rudy couldn't come, so we did it anyway with Thomas, me and the Umbria Jazz Orchestra.

It was later that I went in the studio with Lee Townsend and Rudy, he overdubbed the drums, so that wasn't live, but… it felt like he was there. I hesitate to tell you this because to me, you can't really tell that he wasn't there at the same time! I mean, we've played together for so long as a trio, it's like he was there anyway.

Even with the split between the two discs and the two different ensembles that feature on the record, they still manage to complement each other despite their differences. I think on the back of the strength of the arrangements, the listener feels very much at home within that world that Michael Gibbs has created out of your voice.

That's the sound of Michael Gibbs, it goes throughout the whole thing no matter the size. 

Your current trio has been performing together for the best part of a decade, and your relationship with Rudy Royston goes back even further. I gather you're adding new tunes to your repertoire all the time, but how else do you manage keep such a fresh sense of creativity? 

That's what's always difficult, if someone says what are you gonna play, because we never really know! We don't ever have a setlist... We just get together and, I mean, we're constantly learning new pieces. I was gonna say it's all related to songs and compositions but, at the same time, there's a lot of places where, even within the same piece that we might play from night to night, it always changes. There's so much that we do where we don't know what it's gonna be. It might have something to do with what was going on that day, or we're always talking about other songs to learn; let's try this, let's try that. From day to day, it evolves all the time.

What's your favourite part about sharing the stage with musicians as talented as Rudy and Thomas?

I think what's amazing with these guys is that I keep being surprised with what they play. Hopefully, we're all doing that for each other. I mean, I feel like they're my teachers, they're always doing something unexpected that'll lead me to some new place, and I've been so lucky with that. It just keeps going... I don't see it stopping any time soon.