Interview,
The Bad Plus on the band's new chapter
American jazz group The Bad Plus have been going strong for over two decades now; originally a trio of bassist Reid Anderson, drummer David King and pianist Ethan Iverson, this iteration of the band played together for the best part of 18 years before Iverson was swapped out for fellow pianist Orrin Evans. After spending a few years in the trio, Evans also left to focus on solo material, presenting Anderson and King with an opportunity to take the band in an entirely new direction; inviting saxophonist Chris Speed and guitarist Ben Monder to the group, The Bad Plus now stands as a quartet. While the texture of the band may have changed, their spirit remains very much the same, and with King and Anderson still writing all of the quartet’s original music that same punkish approach still shines through in the new line-up.
During a stint of shows over at the Blue Note Jazz Club in New York, I sat down with Reid, David, Chris and Ben to chat about the new iteration of The Bad Plus, how the new line-up has informed their composition process, and their plans for the band going forward.
Could you talk a bit about the band’s new line-up and the titling of the new album as The Bad Plus? Do you see this as a re-debut of sorts?
Reid Anderson: I’d say that’s pretty accurate, there’s definitely a lot of intention behind calling this new album The Bad Plus; it’s like we’re declaring our right to do whatever we want.
David King: When Orrin [Evans] decided to continue doing his own thing, which was totally understandable, we started looking at the history of the band and jazz as a whole where you have these instruments like piano, saxophone and guitar typically considered as the ‘leaders’ in bands. I think we’ve always challenged those ideas in the piano trio format; the bulk of the original music was composed by either Reid or myself.
Not to negate Ethan [Iverson]’s huge contributions, but we just thought ‘why do we have to continue with the piano?’; we feel like at this point that statement’s already been made, so why not get some other people we love to play with and not let the instrument choice dictate the scope of the band? We’ve become really excited about the idea of this ‘next chapter’ – we’ve been lucky to know both Chris [Speed] and Ben [Monder] for many years, so it was a great moment to say what we’ve said all along which is that the piano doesn’t lead The Bad Plus, no one does… but if anyone does, Reid does!
RA: This is being recorded, right...?
So how did Ben and Chris become involved in the project?
Ben Monder: I think we were number six down the list…
DK: Yeah, we checked the Downbeat Readers’ Poll and said “hey, I know that Ben Monder guy – he was on Blackstar!”
BM: They would’ve had to go into rising star territory to get me.
RA: Rising stars over 50! But really, the moment Dave and I got the news we knew it was an opportunity to try something new with guitar and saxophone, from there it was quite obvious who we’d want to do it with. Like Dave said, it’s important that both Chris and Ben are two of our favourite musicians; they’re friends who we’ve worked with musically over the years.
DK: We had a criteria that anyone who joined the band had to be someone we really trusted, but at the same time could just be themselves and interpret this older music in a unique way. We’d rather have people contribute something that’s truly idiosyncratic, which isn’t very difficult with Chris and Ben. If anything we’ve had to say “hang on a second now, that’s a little too idiosyncratic!”
BM: Yeah, we’re kept on a pretty short leash these days.
DK: I’ll just say that all in all, I’m really excited about what we were able to capture on this record – over the last year when we’ve done this smattering of gigs it’s really started to become apparent that what we’d hoped is in fact happening – this sound is emerging that we can’t see as anything other than ‘The Bad Plus’.
BM: My musical relationship with Reid and Chris goes back to the early ‘90s, so there’s a lot of familiarity and comfort for me in the band. I even lay claim to being at the very first Bad Plus gig!
DK: I’ve also played in Chris’ trio for over a decade and hes’ been in my band… Reid, Chris and I also played in Broken Shadows together with Tim Berne, we’ve all always been into each other’s music.
Chris Speed: Yep, when I first moved to New York one of the first things I did was set up a session that Ben was at, I think that was… probably 1992?
BM: Was that at your basement? A lot of things went down down there!
Has it changed how you write the material at all?
RA: The composition element is actually the one thing in the band that isn’t particularly collaborative; Dave and I write the music ourselves and bring it to the band more or less fully formed, and then of course it takes on a life of its own. I think composition can be a very underrated thing, not just a vehicle for us to play over and show off their virtuosity – of course our pieces include improvisation but it’s a spectrum from very through-composed to more improvisation-heavy material. It’s really always about the ‘Song’ with a capital S; we’ve always placed an emphasis on that from the beginning.
DK: We already had a lot of this material ready when Ben and Chris joined the band, so I did have to think how to make it work with guitar and sax, and moving forward I think having everyone in the band involved going forward would be great. The only thing I’ll say is that I don’t think I can play Ben’s music! I heard some of it in the car last night… I’ve played ‘The Rite of Spring’ and that sounds like The Carpenters next to what he was showing me!
BM: Something I’ve always found very striking about Reid and Dave’s writing is how lyrical it is. They've got a real knack for writing good melodies that are also fun to play on, which is rare.
CS: And these things aren’t foreign concepts, you know? These guys are just good at what they do.
RA: What I should also say is that another reason Ben and Chris are in the band is that they’re coming at it from the same attitude as composers; it’s about the composition itself, that doesn’t take a backseat to being able to show off your virtuosity or anything like that.
Early on in The Bad Plus’ career the band quickly gained a reputation for having a ‘punkish’ attitude and for playing covers of rock and alternative tunes, is that still much of a through-line in the current iteration of the band?
RA: I think the ‘edge’ factor is still part of it, but in terms of these “covers” we’ve kind of left that behind. They were fun to do at the time and got people talking, but the majority of the music we play is original and always has been. I suppose they did help us find our sound because they were these familiar things the audience could latch on to, while also give us the chance to explore some really avant-garde territory within them – but we’ve always made a point of playing our own music to the point where that’s what people expect from us.
DK: I think there’s always been a bit of a misconception about the amount of these covers we did – the first record we did had an Aphex Twin tune and a Nirvana tune on it, and then eight originals. Nowadays it’s a bit more common practice for jazz bands to delve into alternative music, but it wasn’t in 2000 – you’d get a lot of shit for playing a Pixies tune! It makes sense why the press would focus on the fact that we played an Aphex Twin song, but the meat and potatoes of the band has always been this original music.
That being said, I think the reason those rock covers stuck with people is that we’re so good at playing them convincingly – isn’t that right Reid?
RA: Yep!
DK: Chris, Ben you guys know how to play rock music?
BM: I’m learning!
I’d say so, some of what I was hearing on the new album got pretty heavy...
DK: My dream was always to have a group that was one part jazz group and one part Sonic Youth, and we were trying to do that all the way back when it was a piano trio – Ethan would add these white noise and feedback sounds to the pieces. Now with Ben and Chris it’s like… Chris is the ultimate saxophone player for playing stuff that isn’t just blowhard sax licks, he doesn’t play any throwaway notes, no riffs, everything’s very considered. And of course Ben is a master of both ambient and shredding, combining the two in these ways.
We’re so excited to bring it back to ‘The Bad Plus’ in the title in a way that it feels like it is what it’s always wanted to be. It took us 20 years for us to find that out, and of course we stand by every note we played with Ethan and Orrin, they’re brilliant motherfuckers. But with this line-up we don’t have to say ‘can we try to make the piano sound like an aeroplane engine’, Ben and Chris have got that covered – we just don’t have to think about that anymore!
Other than these shows at the Blue Note you’re in the middle of and the new album coming later this year, have you got any other plans for the rest of 2022?
RA: We’re going to be touring quite a lot starting in October so it’s just a steady build-up to getting out on the road with the new album, it feels like life will finally begin at that point. Right now we’re just holding out waiting for the record and for these shows to come about.
DK: We’re also using this handful of shows we’re playing to really gel the ideas from this new album, to get it beyond just what we recorded in the studio and into a place where it feels more like a collaborative band, not just Ben and Chris interpreting what we’ve given them. I’m having an incredibly fun time at the Blue Note this week, the most fun I’ve ever had – everyone’s really going for it and I’ve been coming home thinking “wow, I think we’re finally seeing what the band can do.”
The Bad Plus releases September 30th this year - pre-order it below, and see when The Bad Plus are playing near you here.
Available Formats: CD, MP3, FLAC, Hi-Res FLAC
Joshua Lee - Jazz Content
