Interview, Roderick Williams on Schubert

When I reviewed Der Wanderer, Roderick Williams's beautiful new disc of Schubert lieder with Iain Burnside on Delphian, a few weeks ago, I received so many emails from customers who'd bought and fell in love with the recording that I dropped the man himself a line to find out more about the Schubertian odyssey which he embarked on at the end of last year, and which will see him give his first performances of the three great song-cycles - following a very public learning-process involving open rehearsals, 'book-groups' on the song-texts, workshops in schools and much more. With characteristic generosity, he took time out from a well-earned post-Proms holiday to answer in some depth…

Do please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think this is the very first Schubert you've committed to disc? Did you consciously decide to keep it on ice until now, and what was the catalyst for breaking your silence?!

I’ve been fortunate to have recorded a huge amount of repertoire throughout my career in all sorts of vocal genres (even including some a cappella pop music!) but only very rarely and very recently have I been given free rein to suggest my own repertoire ideas. In the current climate, classical music recording seems to be led much more by record companies and distributers who have a much better idea what might be possible for them to market. I began my solo song recordings with English repertoire on the Naxos label; I happened to be there at the right time when Naxos were looking to increase their English song library and I have certainly benefitted from that. My relationship with Chandos, especially under the baton of Richard Hickox, was also hugely important in determining my recording catalogue. But it would be hilarious to think that such companies contact me to ask what I would like to record next; that doesn’t really happen. Or at least, it didn’t until Delphian asked Iain Burnside to curate a song series programme. He accompanied Ailish Tynan on a wonderful Schubert recital disc and Iain asked if I might add to that myself. So it was that I finally found the moment to record my favourite, current Schubert Lieder material.

What was the thinking behind programming just the Rellstab settings from Schwanengesang rather than the entire cycle?

My personal exploration of the three great Schubert cycles began since the recording of this CD. Up until that point, I had only learnt the Rellstab settings and it was actually performing these with Iain at the Wigmore Hall that prompted John Gilhooly to invite us both to present the cycles in his 2017/2018 season. I don’t think people would be shocked to learn that I have recorded material, much of it fairly obscure, which I have never had an opportunity to perform in front of an audience. It is what I sometimes refer to as ‘sight-reading direct to CD’ although I should hasten to add that all our CDs are meticulously prepared. Of course. Nonetheless, with Schubert repertoire such as this, one wants to be completely at ease with it so I am pleased to have the opportunity to record a Schubert recital programme that I have performed many times.

Since making the recording, you've taken Schwanengesang on tour as well as work-shopping it in a variety of settings - even though only a relatively short time's elapsed, is there anything you'd do differently now?

I can’t be specific in how I might record Schwanengesang differently but I have no doubt that it would be quite a different experience, now that I have learned and performed the cycle as a whole. The Heine songs are so different in mood and style to the Rellstab but juxtaposing the two sets together brings out something remarkable in each. I cannot think of recording as being in any way a testament, a lasting record of how I consider the music should sound. It is instead simply a snapshot of how I was feeling about the music at that time. I could probably record such music again a month or a week later and it would be completely different.

You've recently been performing Winterreise in English (and blogging about the challenges and pleasures of doing so) - do you think there's a market for Schubert in translation on disc, and why do you think it's fallen out of fashion over the past couple of decades after being relatively popular in the mid-twentieth century?

Plans are already in place to record Jeremy Sams’ translation of Winterreise. Clearly it’s difficult for me to predict whether the listening public will be interested in adding this to their Schubert collection and it would obviously only be of any interest to English speakers. However, I do think that it is a profoundly useful experiment and a reminder for the listener that the poetry came first. I think it is very easy to listen to Schubert’s music and forget the importance and subtlety of the words. Hearing the cycle in one’s own language, whatever that may be, enables one to receive both words and music at the same time, without filter. I can’t help thinking that both Schubert and Müller would have been very enthusiastic.

Did you find that any of your operatic roles fed into the way you approach Schubert's 'characters'? I was wondering in particular about Onegin here, which you must've been preparing at around the same time…?

I’m currently working on the role of Billy Budd and I suspect my approach is similar for any piece that allows me to develop character, whether it be in opera, concert oratorio or song. Song recitals most often give me an opportunity to work on several different characters over an evening so it is wonderful to have a cycle like this which allows me to pursue one thread throughout a whole evening. What interests me most is investigating a full picture of a person rather than a perceived type. For example, Onegin is often dismissed as a cad or a rogue, essentially a bad man. But we all know that life is rarely so black and white. I wanted to investigate how a person, any person, can arrive at such a place through the decisions he makes and how many of those decisions can be ethically defended. So, too, is Billy Budd perceived as a good man, almost an angel, but I shall be intrigued to see just how much of his dark side I can bring to bear. As for Winterreise, I am sure every single aspect of this mysterious, elliptical protagonist has been examined by performers and musicologists before me so I’m not sure what else there is to add. But I shall keep looking.

I may well be reading too much into this, but the emphasis on sailors and outcasts/wanderers got me thinking...is there perhaps a pre-echo here of your next project on NMC?!

That is a lovely reference to Howard Skempton’s setting of the Rime of the Ancient Mariner and there are certainly parallels between this mythical outcast and the Romantic notion of the wanderer. What is so fascinating about Winterreise is the relative lack of context and explanation as to why this exile is imposed. At least Taylor Coleridge gives us the background and reason for the mariner’s curse but in Müller one is left to piece the puzzle together from odd references here and there. Yet still much is left unanswered.

Finally, an awfully generic question, but I can't leave it unasked!: who have been your main inspirations and influences in interpreting Schubert, either during this intensive recent period of study or earlier in your career?

In one sense I receive a huge amount of input from every pianist with whom I work; I have been performing Schubert in the last couple of years with Iain Burnside, Susie Allan, Christopher Glynn, Andrew West and Gary Matthewman and will be continuing this year with Roger Vignoles and Julius Drake. Each one of these pianists has performed the repertoire multiple times with other singers and they offer so much insight, whether this is something we discuss during rehearsals or whether it is something I absorb as we make the music.

I have listened to a number or recordings also, starting with Fischer-Dieskau. I don’t find myself being too hung up on individual versions though as I think I gain more insight from a live performance than I do a recording, a fixed point in time. So I was delighted to catch Mark Padmore performing Winterreise with Christopher Glynn at Easter Endellion in April.

I’ve been enjoying Ian Bostridge’s book Anatomy of an Obsession as I continue my own journey through this magnificent repertoire. (courtesy of Presto Classical!) which I am still reading; it has taken a while to read it through because I have had so much music to learn in the last six months. However, the level of detail he goes into and the whimsical nature of his thoughts have been fascinating to follow.

And of course there is Graham Johnson. I recently had the pleasure of singing alongside him in a recital of English song in order to promote Richard Stokes’ new book on the subject. I had not realised quite how encyclopaedic was his knowledge of the repertoire and how great his love for English poetry. He has a collection of poetry first editions that had my head spinning. I have his three volume work on Schubert’s entire song output and this is pretty much a bible for Schubert Lieder performers.

I hope your readers will follow my blog as I continue my own journey through this magnificent repertoire.