Interview,
Bob Chilcott and David Hill on Carols for Choirs 6
You can find all titles in the Carols for Choirs series here
What was it like being chosen to undertake Carols for Choirs 6?
David Hill: This is my first venture in Carols for Choirs and working with Oxford University Press, and it has been a huge privilege to be involved in. Things have changed so much in the world in recent years; there are so many things that have happened in terms of how we see things and how we, therefore, do things, both in terms of involvement in choirs and the sort of repertoire we think we should be preparing. I think this anthology is moving in a completely new, refreshing, and excellent direction, which has been just a pile of fun actually. We were always putting up a banner for quality and making sure that we were doing all the right things by that. I have been involved in other anthologies in the past and they are not like this, and I am very excited by it.
How does this volume tie in with previous volumes of Carols for Choirs, and how does it differ from them?
Bob Chilcott: I think that the parameters for what we are all aiming for now have changed quite dramatically. You can see the journey from one book to the next. We became aware of a kind of generic style. It is a very strong style. But I think this made us think on a much wider scale.
We were very lucky because we have managed to attract some composers into this book who, for one reason or another, we wouldn't have in the past: composers like Caroline Shaw and Nico Muhly. It's no coincidence. David has been terrific from this angle because of his work at Yale. We were able to access a lot of really exciting American composers who perhaps a lot of people in Britain do not know yet. People will look at some of this music and think, “Why don’t I know this composer already?”. I have to credit Robyn Elton a lot [Head of Publishing at Oxford University Press] because she pushed us to go in certain directions as well. And I think together we have done something which is very sincerely meant in what it is trying to do.
David Hill: It's a little bit ground-breaking in that sense. That style of carol that everyone knows and loves is still there, but it is joined by different music too. I really admired Robyn and Oxford University Press for their preparedness for that. To give you an example, Tawnie Olson and Joel Thompson are really well-known composers in North America. The fact that we do not know them so well here in the UK is just because the Atlantic is in the middle of us. We exchange a lot, of course in our cultures. But we are not that good at exchanging things within the choral industry. Knowing that this sort of talent is around, it should be known more widely.
What was it like working on the project as co-editors? Did you play to individual strengths, or was it all very collaborative?
Bob Chilcott: For me, it is always a joy to work with David, I’ve known David for a long time. We both had really strong feelings about the craft of the pieces, and we were always on the same page with that. The first meeting we had was in the pub, you know, so it can't be that bad! David is so immersed in this kind of repertoire; in his work, he reaches so many different kinds of musicians. And so, I think that was a real gift to us. We looked at hundreds of pieces. That to me also says how many choral composers there are around and how much energy there is for this. There was no lack of material!
David Hill: It was a labour of love. I think I was a little daunted sometimes by just the sheer amount of stuff that we were trying to come to terms with. There Is a certain amount of brutality involved, mixed with compassion and understanding and respect. What has been great is working with Bob on that because he has got one of the greatest voices in the choral world. I love looking at music and I love assessing it, so there were strengths that we could both bring to the table. That initial meeting in the pub was particularly good actually; I have the notebook in which we wrote down probably forty or fifty composers, and looking back now it is remarkable because of how many we managed to get into the book. It was a great start. If you are going to have two people working together, you can't have polar opposites. Mindsets will sometimes disagree, but fundamentally you want to travel down the same road.
How did you make those decisions? Are there particular things that you are looking for when choosing which carols to include?
David Hill: When it came to sifting through things, we wanted to spend as much time as we were able to at that given moment. We've spent a lot of our lives doing this, and you can never dismiss anything just from the first four or five bars. You had to really look at it more thoroughly for you to start seeing where it is working and where it isn't. I feel sufficiently experienced to know by about bar twenty or something if it is working or it's not. And then you start seeing the craft, how the management of the harmonies are working and so on. And then we talk about it and usually, we would agree on that. There would be occasional moments when another view would be thrown into the ring, which is good because you'd have to even more eloquently argue your case for why you don't think it should be included. If you're seeing hundreds of pieces, and you've got to get down to fifty, you've got to be a bit hard with yourself and in a sense on other people. And that's why we think that the fifty we got were the right ones
Bob Chilcott: Yes, I agree with that. We both have a lot of experience conducting choirs and by doing that you get an instinct for how people might react. I think that's quite important. There are so many pieces where you just know, from the first moment, that the choir don’t like it. You have to go on your instinct. Sometimes it is simple things like not very well thought through part writing or sections that people find unnecessarily difficult. All these sorts of things are really important to consider because choirs will all look at you, and if they're not sure about it, they'll give you a message for sure.
The series is enjoyed by so many choirs at Christmas time, what do you think it is that makes it so special?
Bob Chilcott: I can remember when just a few years after Carols for Choirs 1 came out, how impactful that was. I was singing in King's Choir as a chorister in the 60s when Willcocks was writing new descants and new pieces. I sang in the premiere of Jesus Christ, the apple tree (Elizabeth Poston), and Tomorrow Shall be my Dancing Day (Willcocks). We absolutely loved them. Then I went to secondary school and Carols for Choirs 2 came out, and I can remember the impact of the Shepherd's Pipe Carol. I think particularly those first two books, they created something unique, and that made people want the books. The perspective is probably very different now, but I hope that we've done something like that too with this edition, as it's an incredibly strong brand.
David Hill: I can recall, the green book, Carol for Choirs when it emerged. As a young organist at the age of ten I was playing the services, and what I couldn't believe was these new arrangements that came from Willcocks of the old hymns. I think it was that, and some new carols of course, within the book which made it special. In the arrangements there was this new sound world that Willcocks was supplying for everyone; it was a game changer.
I hope people will see Carols for Choirs 6 as a global offering for carols. The new carols were the leaders really for what this book was about. And that's a pretty seismic shift. If you look at book one and book six they are completely different, and both brilliant. Both are trying to give a voice to carols in a particular way.
Bob Chilcott: Also, the support of John Rutter was a significantly important thing. John is such a figure in Carols for Choirs, and one of the reasons why the series was a game changer was because of John. It coincided with everyone starting to know all of his new carols. John was unfailingly supportive of this project and actually, there are two of his carols in the book. He also produced the recording that we did. He is always so positive, and I think that was important for us. In this kind of series, with a different sort of personality that could be difficult, but he was brilliant.
David Hill: I completely concur with that; he has been superb.
Watch Bob and David talk more about Carols for Choirs 6 below.
Bob Chilcott
Bob Chilcott has been involved with choral music all his life, first as a Chorister and then a Choral Scholar at King's College, Cambridge. Later, he sang and composed music for 12 years with the King's Singers. His experiences with that group, his passionate commitment to young and amateur choirs, and his profound belief that music can unite people, have inspired him both to compose full-time and, through proactive workshopping, to promote choral music worldwide.
David Hill
Renowned for his fine musicianship, David Hill MBE is widely respected as both a choral and orchestral conductor. His talent has been recognised by his appointments as Musical Director of The Bach Choir, Music Director of Leeds Philharmonic Society, Associate Guest Conductor of the Bournemouth Symphony Orchestra, Principal Conductor of Yale Schola Cantorum, and International Chair in Choral Conducting at the Royal Northern College of Music. He was Chief Conductor of the BBC Singers from September 2007 to September 2017. Previously he has been Director of Music at Westminster and Winchester Cathedrals and at St John's College, Cambridge.
Ellena Taylor - Sheet Music and Books Manager
