Interview, Alex Western-King on bandleading and inspirations

English saxophonist Alex Western-King has toured extensively as a sideman, including with folks like Julian Siegel, Justin Stanton of Snarky Puppy, and Alex Garnett, as well as being a regular at Ronnie Scott’s in London. Though not a new name on the scene per se, it wasn’t until this year that he released his debut studio album, SideSlip, on 25th June with Ubuntu Music. Marrying his love of bebop and free jazz through a selection of original compositions, SideSlip is a confident first statement for the saxophonist.

I caught up with Alex to discuss his early interest in jazz, switching from clarinet to saxophone, and his plans for the next year.

From the sounds of it, you started playing clarinet before switching to sax after developing an interest in jazz - what were some of the first recordings you heard that made you think “actually, jazz sax is where it’s at”?

I think I’ve worked backwards, in a way - the person who really got me into the saxophone was probably Michael Brecker - straight in at the deep end! I was also playing in big bands, playing stuff like Basie and Ellington, which I really enjoyed as well. That was what really convinced me to make the switch.

A lot of people might say Charlie Parker or John Coltrane, but I suppose Brecker is a bit more contemporary.

I suppose so, although I did very quickly move on to Parker and Coltrane.

And did you continue with the clarinet? Do you still play it nowadays?

I still play the clarinet a lot now! I originally started playing the saxophone and clarinet side-by-side; by the time I properly made the switch I’d been playing the sax for about four or five months, and had already been playing in bands for about a month or so. It was when I was preparing to enter music college on the clarinet that I realised I should focus on the saxophone; I knew I didn’t want to play classical clarinet for the rest of my life, as much as I love playing it. The thing that really pushed me in the direction of the saxophone was that it was something I could see myself doing long-term.

How did your album SideSlip come together? Did you sit down one day and think “right, now’s the time to write my record”, or was it written over a longer period of time?

I was gigging quite regularly with my band, and it was getting to the point where people were asking “can I buy your album?” or “are you on Spotify?”, and I had no answer to give them. We had originally planned for it to be a live album - we had two dates booked at Pizza Express Soho to record it - but then COVID happened and it all got cancelled. So instead, I actually re-wrote the entire set of music for the studio album, since I didn’t think what I’d written for the live set would necessarily come across the same way in the studio. I locked myself in my home studio for two weeks and forced myself to write a set of music, which is something I’d never done before. I think writing with the pressure of a deadline actually brought out the best in me, as I’m usually the kind of person who will fiddle with compositions endlessly, and I think I’m going to do it again for the next album.

So you really did just power through and force yourself to finish it?

Yeah, one-hundred percent. I had to set my mind on doing it, and find whatever way I could to make it work. It also gave me something to do while we were all locked down.

Did you record the album itself at home, or did you go to a proper studio for that?

We managed to sneak in the recording session between the first and second lockdowns; we had a couple of rehearsals for it, but it was really the only time that year that myself and the band got to play with other people. We went into it with a lot of energy because of that, and I think we really managed to capture that on the album as well.

You produced the album with Alex Garnett, someone who you have a bit of history with - could you talk a bit about that?

Alex is the don. I first saw him play when I was in my first year of music college; I’d just moved to London, and went down to the Ronnie Scott’s late show to check out the jam session. I brought my sax with me, but it didn’t leave its case that night! I remember hearing him play and realising I’d got a long way to go before I could get up on that stage. He’s been a hero of mine ever since, and I’ve since been back to Ronnie’s and we became very good friends - he even taught me while I was at music college too.

In terms of jazz musicians in Europe, there’s very few people around that have as much knowledge and experience as Alex does - we’ve played together a lot and I’ve never once called a tune that he hasn’t known like the back of his hand. After about three years I started trying to catch him out as well, but he’s just completely unflappable. You could probably speak to dozens of people on the UK jazz scene right now and they’d say the same thing about him; it just seems like he’s best friends with everyone, like he’s widely accepted as “The Guy”, so having him produce the album was a really special experience.

It sounds like you’ve known your bandmates on SideSlip for quite a while, too?

I’ve been playing with all three of them for a long time. My first ever gig at Ronnie Scott’s was with [pianist] Sam Leak; we were playing in the Matthew Reed Quartet, and we’ve been playing together ever since… about six years now. Jonny [Wickham] - the bass player - is probably my best mate, which was important for me to have on the album. Since he’s someone I’m close with, he can tell me when something is bad, and that was really helpful for me. Jonny really helped out with a lot more than just his bass playing; he was kind of my hand-holder through the whole thing. [Drummer, Jay Davis] I’ve been playing with for about three years or so, so when it came to recording the album with those three it just seemed right.

You still play a lot with other bands, particularly as part of big bands, what is it about that that you still enjoy doing? How does it differ from playing with your own quartet?

I love playing other people’s music, probably more than my own music. My main love is really the American Songbook, so getting to play that with people is what I really enjoy - I’m very happy as a sideman. For my first album, though, it was important for me to have my own tunes on it - just so people know what I have to say. Equally, though, I think an album of standards is something I’ll probably do somewhere along the line. I’ll most likely continue working as a sideman, because running your own project is hard work! I have endless respect for people who release their own stuff on a regular basis and are constantly touring.

I suppose it requires a lot of confidence in the material you’re writing, doesn’t it?

Absolutely. Say I’m playing on a tour and we’re playing the music of Ella Fitzgerald, I have confidence that people want to come and hear that. When it’s your own stuff, you feel a lot more fragile - there’s not that guarantee that people are going to enjoy what they’re about to listen to. Well, there never is that guarantee, but you’ve got a better chance if people already know the music. Running my own project has been a massive learning curve, both emotionally and logistically.

Another project you help with is DaCapo Music, could you talk about that?

DaCapo was something that was introduced to me when I was looking for work after college; I was looking for some teaching work. In this country, classroom music education in primary school is pretty bad - unless you have parents who will pay for one-to-one instrumental lessons, it can be difficult for schools to have a good music program, then by the time you get to secondary school there’s this massive disparity in kids’ musical skills. It’s not the school’s fault, as it’s incredibly expensive for them to hire visiting teachers. DaCapo help primary schools by using what they call ‘whiteboard technology’ that can be taught in the class by teachers with little to no music experience, and so far it’s already helped kids get to a pretty competent level by the time they reach year six. We’re hoping that it provides a much more level playing field across the country, so children can go to secondary school with an equal chance to take on something like GCSE music or learn an instrument, because that’s where it all starts. As someone who did have that musical education in primary school, I was really shocked at how poor music education can be in some schools, through no fault of the schools or teachers. Something needs to change, and hopefully this is it.

Of course this may be COVID dependent, but what do the next twelve months look like for you?

Eventually we’re going to tour this album, but I’m not sure what that’ll look like yet - whether it’s five gigs, twenty gigs or just two gigs - we’ll be out there gigging it either way, because I refuse to be beaten into submission by COVID. Whether it’s next year, 2023 or 2025 we’re going to take it on the road at some point. I want to get that out of the way before thinking about my next album, and try to learn as many lessons from SideSlip as possible. I mostly want to get out there and play with as many people as I can, and enjoy playing music again! I think it’s really key to surround yourself with musicians who are much better than yourself; as long as you’re doing that, you can’t go far wrong. You need people to push you and bring your music alive - it’s a great experience.

Check out Alex's debut album SideSlip now on Ubuntu Music...